From:  Paul Osman <paul@mozillafoundation.org>
Date:  18 Feb 2011 01:42:21 Hong Kong Time
Newsgroup:  news.mozilla.org/mozilla.drumbeat.website
Subject:  

Re: [Drumbeat] twitter/fb/flickr

NNTP-Posting-Host:  63.245.208.166

On 02/17/2011 12:28 PM, Michael Chisari wrote:
> Just to jump in, I agree with the necessity of offering up proprietary
> services, but because the open web is as much about education as it is
> writing code, maybe a good design could be worked out
> that aesthetically privileges open systems over closed ones?
>
> Bright icons vs. muted colors, or slightly larger icons, or something
> along those lines.  Possibly with links or tooltips for the open ones
> which can point users to more information about them and how to sign up.
>
> Since nobody needs to be told what Facebook or Twitter is, but some
> people might not have heard of StatusNet and could use a pointer in the
> right direction.

Thanks for chiming in Michael.

Excellent idea - I think shooting for the best of both worlds is great: 
Support proprietary services while encouraging open alternatives. If 
anyone with some UX / Design chops wants to get involved in making this 
happen, let's take the thread over to the drumbeat-website list and 
discuss implementation.

Cheers,
Paul

>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:28 AM, paul@appcoast.com
>   > wrote:
>
>     +2 :-)
>
>
>     On 17/02/2011 17:05, Paul Osman wrote:
>
>         Hi All,
>
>         Glad to see such spirited discussion. I agree that this is a
>         tricky and nuanced issue and I'm finding it really interesting
>         to see where everyone stands. Once again, it seems like our
>         communities inability to rally behind a single definition of
>         "Open Web" leaves lots of room for disagreement.
>
>         I think it's a no-brainer that we should add a StatusNet icon
>         pointing to mozilla.status.net . That
>         was an oversight; it should have been there from the get-go.
>         I'll file a bug and have that included in a future release.
>
>         I'm unwilling however to support removing Facebook / Twitter /
>         Flickr icons. The tricky bit about social platforms is that
>         their value is a direct product of their users. We have to be
>         where our audience is. If we want to reach out to new people, we
>         have to go to them, not expect them to use unfamiliar tools
>         because they meet some definition of "open" that noone can agree
>         on :-)
>
>         I would be discouraged if we ever started using closed platforms
>         like Facebook *exclusively* as that'd lock out a large number of
>         people, but at the moment we only use Facebook and Twitter as
>         two of many communication channels. You aren't missing anything
>         by not having accounts on either of those services.
>
>         Flickr is accessible to anyone, whether they have an account or
>         not, and allows us to specify the license that content is made
>         available under. I have no problem with this whatsoever, just as
>         I have no problem with us hosting the code for the Drumbeat
>         website in Github.
>
>         Best,
>         Paul
>
>         On 02/17/2011 10:58 AM, adam hyde wrote:
>
>             hi,
>
>             this has been for me, a very interesting debate and exposes
>             a broad
>             spectrum of how people see drumbeat and the open web. So to
>             build upon
>             this ecology of approaches I would like to propose a
>             strategy that might
>             meet everyones needs :
>
>             Drumbeats messaging / communication avoids associating
>             itself with the
>             closed web while the Drumbeat community, being an autonomous
>             bunch,
>             employ whatever tools they as individuals/collectives to
>             spread the
>             word.
>
>             That would boil down to cleaning any references to closed
>             software/protocols/services off the 'front window' (ie.
>             drumbeat site
>             and other message channels) and letting everyone get on with
>             their
>             business fighting the good fight  - using the tools they see as
>             necessary* for the purpose of congregating and spreading the
>             idea of
>             Drumbeat and the Open Web.
>
>             adam
>
>             (*I would like to add the caveat that we all, as
>             individuals, sustain
>             and encourage a critique of closed tools if using them)
>
>
>
>             On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 16:38 +0200, Bogomil Shopov - Mozilla
>             Bulgaria
>             wrote:
>
>                 On 02/17/2011 04:28 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
>
>                     Bogomil Shopov - Mozilla Bulgaria schrieb:
>
>                         On 02/17/2011 12:20 PM, adam hyde wrote:
>
>                             i think its a very compromising situation
>                             for drumbeat to support
>                             twitter, facebook and flickr in the new site
>                             by pointing to groups in
>                             these services. These services are not part
>                             of the open web and i think
>                             DB really undermines its own voice by
>                             connecting to and endorsing the
>                             use of closed (walled/non-free etc) services
>                             like this.
>
>
>                         +1, but most of the people are using those
>                         services. Maybe we can create
>                         a crew to make some documentation "Why facebook
>                         is evil and how we can
>                         migrate to diaspora or identica".
>
>
>                     Just that they can't jump onto diaspora right away
>                     as not even I can
>                     get an account at this moment. :(
>
>                 http://diasp.org - faster and better :)
>
>
>                     For one thing, I fully agree that Facebook is for
>                     the Open Web what
>                     Microsoft is for the open desktop (not sure what to
>                     compare twitter
>                     with, as it's somewhere in between, walled system
>                     with open data flow).
>
>                     And I fully agree that we really shouldn't advocate
>                     those from our
>                     front page - but at the same time, we need to reach
>                     out to the vast
>                     amount of people there.
>
>                     Maybe there is some good way of advocating the open
>                     variants on our
>                     website and still "advertise" into the more closed
>                     systems?
>
>                 We must be on Facebook and twitter in order to show
>                 their users the
>                 better alternative :)
>
>
>
>                     Robert Kaiser
>
>
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